Dante’s Peak vs. Volcano

Em: 00:02:14

Hi, everyone. I'm Em, and welcome to verbal diorama. Episode 342, Dante's Peak versus Volcano.

This is the podcast that's all about the history and legacy of movies you know, and movies you don't that also features dogs being saved, a dramatic and painful character, sacrifice, romantic subplots, children in peril, a race against time, and where did all this lava and ash come from? The floor is lava. The floor is lava. Welcome to Verbal Diorama.

Whether you're a brand-new listener, whether you're a regular returning listener, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you so much for choosing to listen to this podcast.

I'm, as always, so happy to have you here for the history and legacy of Dante's Peak versus the history and legacy of Volcano. If you are a regular returning listener, thank you so much for returning to this podcast.

Continuing to listen to this podcast and support this podcast over the last seven years and now 342 episodes.

It genuinely means so much that people continue to come back to this podcast and something a little bit different this week, actually, because I've done double episodes on this podcast before. Usually it's a movie and it's sequel, or I've done a movie and it's remake, but I've never done a double episode about twin movies.

ovies in the same year and in: 1997

And we're going to start with a trip to the second most desirable place to live in the US population under 20,000. The quaint town of Dante's Peak. I have a feeling it won't be the second most desirable place to live in the US for much longer.

Here's the trailer for Dante's Peak.

Em: 00:05:23

USGS scientist Harry Dalton is sent to the small town of Dante's Peak to check on unusual activity spurred by the volcano related death of a previous lover. Dalton urges Mayor Rachel Wando to put the city on alert. Dalton's boss Paul Dreyfus arrives and disagrees with Dalton, demanding scientific proof.

When the proof finally arrives, Harry and Rachel must go to the volcano to rescue her two children and ex mother in law. Tension builds as they try to reach safety while the town below is destroyed. Let's run through the cast.

We have Pierce Brosnan as Harry Dalton, Linda Hamilton as Rachel Wando, Charles Hallahan as Paul Dreyfuss, Grant Heslof as Greg, Kirk Trutner as Terry, Elizabeth Hoffman as Ruth, Jeremy Foley as Graham Wando and Jamie Renee Smith as Lauren Wando. Dante's Peak was written by Leslie Bohem and directed by Roger Donaldson.

With all the movies being made by Hollywood studios at the same time, you might think it's practically impossible to get a twin film situation. You can go for decades and not have Hollywood making movies about volcanoes and lava and and then in the mid-90s, have to turn up at once.

Now, in the case of many twin films, it could be a genuine coincidence.

If a character is in the public domain, for example, like Dracula or Sherlock Holmes, you're likely to find a few examples of the character across the studios because they're easy to adapt and known to viewers.

Or you could have one studio having an idea and a competing studio deciding to do something similar and then basically wanting to be the first to market to guarantee dominance. Although that's not always the case. Antz beat A Bug's Life to cinemas by one month, but A Bug's Life took double the money.

But in the case of Dante's Peak and volcano. Two remarkably similar ideas.

One in a small American town and the other in one of America's biggest cities, but one a bit more accurate than the other. But it was still two studios fighting each other for dominance. Universal and 20th Century Fox.

th of February: 1997

A small town at the base of a dormant volcano. The titular Dante's Peak is itself based on Mount St. Helens.

onal similarities between the: 1980

He studied geology, and while it wasn't the career for him, he would channel his love for the science into attempting to make the movie as factual as possible. Now, I am not a geologist, nor do I know a geologist.

However, the Internet contains many geologists who have generally summarized their thoughts on the movie and its accuracy. So here's what I've found out. It's safe to say I can be pretty certain that you cannot drive a car over lava.

Not that I've tried, but unlike Mike Rourke, as I'm going to come to, I know what magma is. So that's a good start. But here's what some actual geologists and volcanologists have said on the Internet about the depiction in Dante's Peak.

So we're going to start basically on what this movie is based on, and that is the eruption at Mount St. Helens. And both Mount St. Helens and Dante's Peak involve the stratovolcanoes in the Cascade region of Washington State.

r the story is explicitly the: 1980

And the actual post eruption landscape of Mount St. Helens was used as a filming location, both as a backdrop for the erupted mountain at the end of the movie and for a scene shot within the crater itself. The filmmakers weren't just drawing thematic inspiration, they were literally standing in the shadow of St. Helens.

amatically transformed by the: 1980

and chemically altered by the: 1980

And then there's the Grandma Ruth character who's said to be based on Harry R. Truman. An 83 year old campground owner who lived a few miles from the St Helens summit.

earthquakes in the spring of: 1980

Just like Graham Wando in Dante's Peak, Truman was ultimately buried alive under 46 metres of volcanic debris.

May: 1980

March: 1980

eruption does mirror the real: 1980

He mentions that in: 1980

Mammoth Mountain similar in composition to Mount St Helens, except that it has more of a basaltic magma. While Mammoth Mountain still produces hazardous volcanic gases that kill trees.

Most scientists figured that if the mountain were to erupt that it would be minor, but it actually hasn't erupted in 700 years.

May: 1980

The superheated clouds of gas, ash and rock fragments are largely accurate in terms of their speed and lethality. They resemble the devastating flows experienced during the Mount St Helens eruption.

ged down St. Helens slopes in: 1980

The image of flattened forest is also directly borrowed from the lateral blast from St. Helens, which famously snapped trees 10ft in diameter across a vast area.

Establishing shots and post eruption devastation were filmed in and around Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument, which gives the film a geologically recognisable landscape. Of course, it was also predominantly the pyroclastic flows that decimated Pompeii.

Mount Vesuvius was also a stratovolcano fresh off of daylight with Sylvester Stallone. Dante's Peak was written by Leslie Bohem, and Universal paid him $1 million to do so. He was 95 pages into his script when Volcano was announced.

y hunter in Vegas in the year: 2038

vie was set to film in May of: 1996

Goldeneye being a huge hit in: 1995

Hamilton was suggested by producer Gale Anne Hurd as they'd worked together on the Terminator movies. Director Roger Donaldson, who also previously directed Species, wasn't convinced that she could play, quote, unquote, normal.

It turns out Linda Hamilton isn't Sarah Connor and can just play a normal suburban mother. Brosnan and Hamilton became good friends during filming, and it shows because their chemistry is great.

Universal hired David H. Harlow, John P. Lockwood and Norman Macleod as volcanology advisors. Dr. Lockwood had his own volcanic hazard consulting firm, Geohazard Consultants International.

Dr. Harlow was the photographer on the first day of the Mount Pinatubo eruption, and Dr. Macleod was a paleontologist who studied the causes of extinctions and evolutionary patterns.

Because Volcano was also in production at about the same time, Universal publicly stated that the filmmakers insisted on scrupulous realism regarding volcanic details.

The three consultants reportedly turned down working on Volcano due to the impossibility of the storyline and the potential concern about their professional reputations.

But Dante's Peak is still a movie with a fair amount of artistic license, and so there are Liberties taken with the portrayal of stratovolcanoes, of which Dante's Peak is depicted as they produce highly viscous lava that moves slowly. And because gas gets trapped in that lava, it's released violently as ash. Hawaiian eruptions show lava while Mount St. Helens shows ash.

But Dante's Peak wanted both ash that blankets the town and brings down helicopters and fast moving lava that swallows Grandma's cabin. But real stratovolcanoes don't work that way. The earthquake scale is also overstated.

Volcanic earthquakes result from rocks cracking under magma pressure which produces a different and generally smaller kind of shaking that then tectonic plate movement. And then there's the infamous acid lake scene.

Lakes can indeed be termed acidic B volcanic gases, but these are almost always near long dormant craters. It simply isn't possible for a lake to turn corrosively acid in just a few hours as the movie suggests.

The USGS actually published an official fact check of the film at release. They did note that it features a robot being used to monitor the volcano. But the USGS clarified they don't use robots for that purpose.

They rely on experienced scientists and instruments like seismometers, tilt meters, GPS receivers and gas sensors.

Dante's Peak was filmed on location in Wallace, Idaho, a small town, population at the time around a thousand people, many of whom appear in the movie as extras in the town scenes. Wallace is located in the Bitterroot Mountains and was originally a mining community.

The town has many claims to fame as it's one of the few destinations where the entire town is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. And it also claims to be the center of the universe. It has a large hill in the southeast which was digitally altered to depict Dante's Peak.

And this is a great place, I think, to talk about the visual effects in Dante's Peak, which is. Which are actually terrific and mostly still hold up.

On Dante's Peak, during the sequence where the town is partially Destroyed, they had 27 Panavision cameras rolling at the same time. Orchestrating something of that scale was Roger Donaldson's director of photography, Andre Bartowiak.

The movie used a limited amount of cgi, mainly just for the lava. The rest of it was miniatures and practical effects.

Dante's Peak is really sitting at that sweet spot between early adoption of CG and the use of matte paintings and miniatures. And like I say, this movie looks great. Much of what you think might be a digital effect is actually practical.

The pyroclastic clouds were entirely practical. Digital volumetric rendering software existed at the time, but it wasn't ready and test renders at Digital Domain would take a week.

And it still still looked wrong.

Instead, VFX supervisor Patrick McClung borrowed five enormous air cannons, 3ft in diameter, 12ft long, from Roy Arbogast, who'd used them on Chain Reaction, which is a great obligatory Keanu reference. I try and link every episode that I do with Keanu Reeves in some way. That is a great way to link him to this.

They fired around 600 pounds of bentonite, which is a dark charcoal gray clay powder normally used as a lubricant in oil drilling into the air at 250 frames per second. They did this near Palmdale Airport.

The resulting clouds were then composited into the film using luminance mattes pulled from the contrast between the dark powder and the bright sky. The bridge sequence, which I genuinely thought that this was real. I did not realize this was miniatures because it looks so good.

The production built what may have been at the time, the largest water based miniature ever constructed at that point. Two massive steel tanks, one raised 40ft in the air, feeding hundreds of thousands of gallons of water down a miniature valley.

McLung made the call to build the vehicle slightly larger than quarter scale after realising that quarter scale wouldn't hold up on screen. And they were pulled through the flood water by a hidden central cable track. Hydraulic rams were embedded beneath the bridge to control its collapse.

And the whole structure had to be shot in short windows at dawn and dusk because the winter sun would only skim the top of the model at certain angles. There was also a giant volcano miniature which was one of the production's biggest set pieces, but that actually ended up being scrapped.

It was built from styrofoam blocks sculpted with hot wire at Van Nuys Airport, where Air Force One was also being filmed on the other side of the Runway. At the same time, the practical volcano just didn't read convincingly on camera. McClung described it as his biggest mistake on the film.

And most of the volcano shots ended up being replaced by a matte painting. The lava was mostly cg, but they didn't have much of it.

Unlike volcano, the geyser of lava was just white sand lit with a white light shot indoors and then color corrected red in post. CG lava was added below it on a miniature set. The log cabin lava sequence was one of the most technically complicated shots in the entire movie.

The interior cabin set was built so the entire back wall could be removed and replaced with a green screen. And when the director called Lava interactive red lighting was switched on to simulate the glow.

Back in la, the team rebuilt a small version of the log cabin set they'd originally built in Idaho and used digital tracking of the original Steadicam movements to convert it into motion control files so a motion control camera could exactly reproduce the movement. A large battering ram backlit with green was used to physically smash through the wall, making you think that lava was pushing through it with cg.

Lava composited in behind the furniture was separately shot on wires and coated in a fast burning material. And that was added to look like it was being shoved back by the flow, along with a hanging rug element filmed independently.

The exterior cabin escape was shot on a property near Vasquez Rocks in Los Angeles. Roy Arbogast built trees piped with gas so they could be lit on fire.

And the lava channels were simply trenches cut into the ground and lit with red gel. The trucks were on hydraulic movers to simulate them floating on unstable ground.

And the actual lava flowing on either side was entirely digital composited in.

Later, the boat lake sequence used a lock off shot of the burning cabin with lava composited behind the family in the boat filmed at Falls Lake on the Universal backlot in front of a massive 200 foot wide backing screen. That's of course the lake that ends Grandma.

The visual effects team worked seven days a week for 12 to 15 hour days to get the visual effects work done on time. And this was mostly because of Volcano. The whole production of Dante's Peak was was driven by the rivalry with Volcano.

Both Universal and Fox repeatedly moved their release dates forward to get ahead of each other.

At a certain point, the schedule shifted so aggressively that it effectively cut the post production time in half, leaving McLung on his first film as visual effects supervisor, genuinely unsure whether finishing was physically possible. There were shots composited without time for another go.

The bridge sequence was nearly out of water and McClung missed the bridge's final collapse entirely because he was driving back from post production when it happened.

October: 1996

In December: 1996

Universal won the year long scheduling war and Volcano was pushed all the way back to late April. But Fox would have the last laugh. Sort of.

Star wars re release meant Dante's peak debuted at second at the US box office and on its 115 million dollar budget. Dante's Peak grossed $67.2 million domestically and $111 million internationally, for a total worldwide gross of $178.2 million.

Universal Pictures invited hundreds of volcanologists and other scientists to free screenings in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle and Honolulu, hoping for a good reception.

Most of the scientists seem to like parts of the movie, particularly its depiction of a U.S. geological Survey team at work, its demonstration of volcanic power and some of the special effects.

But most of the experts interviewed at length after the screenings faulted Dante's Peak for its exaggerations and for compressing what happened at Dante's Peak to a time frame that was far too short on Rotten Tomatoes.

Dante's Peak has a rating of 34% with a consensus of the movie works when things are on fire, but everything else, from dialogue to characters, is scathingly bad. However, geological websites created dedicated information pages to attract students who became interested in volcanology.

And Dante's Peak became a popular film discussed in science classes across the US and if you're bored with small town America, why not visit one of the biggest, most diverse CITIES in the U.S. los Angeles, the City of Angels. Take a walk down Wilshire Boulevard. Why not visit the Beverly Centre, the La Brea Tar Pits, MacArthur Park.

And if you feel a bit under the weather, Cedar Sinai. Los Angeles may experience the odd earthquake, but you've got no chance of a volcanic eruption happening here. But wait, turns out the coast is toast.

Here's the trailer for Volcano.

Em: 00:31:07

In the city of Los Angeles, it is nice, quiet and routine until an earthquake occurs. Nothing out of the ordinary for LA.

But the director of the city's emergency management, Mike Rourke, realises this isn't your average earthquake, when seven utility workers are burned to death in a storm drain. When seismologist Amy Barnes warns him about a volcano developing in LA's La Brea Tar Pits, her concerns soon take form.

A sea of lava, joined by ash plumes and flaming bombs pours out onto the streets of LA and begins its slow, unyielding crawl down Wilshire Boulevard, devouring local attractions. And despite the best efforts of Mike Rourke and city officials, it is seemingly unstoppable. Let's run through the cast.

We have Tommy Lee Jones as Mike Rourke, Anne Heche as Amy Barnes, Gaby Hoffman as Kelly Rourke, Don Cheadle as Emmett Reese, Jacqueline Kim as Dr. J Calder, Keith David as Ed Fox, John Corbett as Norman Calder, Michael Rispoli as Gator Harris and John Carroll lynch as Stan Olber. Volcano has a screenplay by Jerome Armstrong and Billy Ray, a story by Jerome Armstrong and was directed by Mick Jackson.

ruption in the Philippines in: 1991

Huge pyroclastic flows roared down the flanks of Pinatubo, filling once deep valleys with fresh volcanic deposits as much as 200 meters thick. The eruption removed so much magma and rock from beneath the volcano that the summit collapsed to form a small caldera 25 kilometers across.

times larger than the: 1980

The evacuation in the days before the eruption certainly saved tens of thousands of lives and has been hailed as a great success for volcanology and eruption prediction. Armstrong loved apocalyptic disaster stories, thought about what might threaten cities besides earthquakes and floods.

He truly believed nobody else was thinking about making a volcano movie. So he decided to write one. His script was called Volcano. He was wrong.

Days before Armstrong and producer Neil Moritz were to take Volcano to studios, Universal announced that it had signed Roger Donaldson to make Dante's Peak. The plot points were remarkably similar. Sudden volcanic eruption, children in danger. Only one man can save the day.

The similarities might have stopped the Volcano team, but Moritz worked fast.

He called agent John Klane, who picked up a copy of Volcano, read it that night, met with Armstrong the next morning and sent the script to potential buyers.

That afternoon he received several inquiries, including one from Universal, which was in pre production for Dante's Peak, possibly to buy the script and throw it in the proverbial Hollywood volcano.

th Century Fox's Fox: 2000

d volcano from an eruption in: 1943

Farmer Dionisio Pulido and his wife Paula reported hearing strange hissing sounds and smelling sulphur before the land split Open, with the fissure developing into a small crater, and within 24 hours, a volcano had risen 164ft from the ground and begun Strombolian pyroclastic activity. It does actually sound like something out of a bombastic Hollywood disaster movie, to be fair.

Over the years, Paricutin grew to about 1,400ft tall, and its eruption lasted nine years.

With the ejection of stone, volcanic ash and lava, three people were killed, two towns were completely evacuated and buried by lava, and three others were also heavily affected. Hundreds of people had to permanently relocate, and two new towns were created to accommodate their migration.

But from a scientific point of view, Paricutin was the first time volcanologists were able to fully document and witness the entire life cycle of a volcano. The real event even gets a direct nod. In the film.

Anne Heche's character, Amy, uses Paricutin as a reference to challenge Tommy Lee Jones character's skepticism. Her assistant Rachel, invokes it to defend the theory that the activity beneath Los Angeles could be lava.

Volcano transported the core concept, a volcano suddenly appearing from the ground in an unlikely location to an urban Los Angeles setting, specifically placing it beneath the La Brea tar pits. But the difference is that Paricutin formed in a subduction zone.

little warning, as it did in: 1943

But that's very different from the geology of Los Angeles. It makes for a very dramatic movie, but factually, it would never happen like it did in Mexico.

And that's because volcanoes require a source of magma close enough to the surface to erupt. That typically happens in two settings.

Over hotspots like Hawaii or Iceland, where a fixed plume of superheated mantle material punches through the crust. Or at subduction zones where one tectonic plate slides under another, causing the subducting rock to melt and rise.

Los Angeles is located neither near a hotspot nor nor near a subduction zone.

It sits on a transform boundary, the San Andreas fault system, where plates grind laterally past each other, rather than one sliding beneath the other.

One of the main places where rock melts is where one plate slides under another, which happens further north in the cascades of Washington, Oregon and Northern California. And that's why those regions have active volcanoes like Mount St. Helens. Los Angeles sits on the wrong kind of fault entirely.

Volcano depicts a new volcanic vent spontaneously forming under Los Angeles, which has no recorded volcanic activity of that kind. It's simply not possible for any of this to happen.

And its science advisor agrees, because Volcano did have its own science advisor, Rick Hazlett, professor of geology at Pomona College. But he stressed the movie wasn't based on scientific fact and was just entertainment. He had to bite his lip at the lava flowing uphill.

Following the streets mentioned in the movie.

It travels from the La Brea Tar Pits down Wilshire Boulevard and South San Vicente Boulevard to the Beverly Centre and Cedar Sinai, which is just under 2 miles northwest. The lava is then redirected down storm drains to Ballona Creek.

However, in reality, Ballona Creek's storm drains are just over three miles away from the Beverly Centre to the southeast and actually located closer to the La Brea Tar Pits. Not to mention the houses in South Central that are also being flooded by lava that little dogs bark at. But you know, semantics.

It's just entertainment. But they really did film on location in Los Angeles at These places, including MacArthur Park, Cedars Sinai Medical center and the La Brea Tar Pits.

All this aside, Volcano isn't really trying to be accurate. It is essentially a fantasy about city destruction.

But the premise of a new volcano spontaneously forming under a major urban area has no geological precedent.

And characters wade through lava and survive long enough to perform heroic acts in ways that completely ignore the reality of radiant heat, which would be lethal well before physical contact, such as the subway train in the tunnels. John Carroll Lynch wouldn't melt like the Wicked Witch of the West. He would have burned.

But while Grandma Ruth and Stan Olber would perish, Volcano and Dante's Peak would at least ensure that dogs survive. So there is that. The real star of Volcano, though, isn't Tommy Lee Jones. It is the lava itself.

And the majority of the roughly 250 effect shots are dedicated to depicting the creeping flowing lava. They made an 80% full size replica of Wilshire Boulevard, one of the largest sets ever constructed in the US In Torrance, California.

They shot close ups of miniature lava on the set and composited it into the live action plates.

The lava used was actually methylcellulose, a water based thickening agent often used in fast food milkshakes mixed with dyes and pigments, but its edges were made to interact convincingly with cars, buildings and palm trees in the background footage. One of the most technically impressive single shots in the film contains 130 layers of elements.

And that's the scene where the police and fire teams use concrete barriers to stop the flow of lava in it.

CG artists added 3D rooftops to the surrounding buildings because the Wilshire Boulevard set was built without them and tracked CG lava in the foreground, added CG helicopters and digitally erased on set lighting rigs all within a single composite.

The visual effects supervisor who made it all happen was Matt Beck of Light Matters Inc. On set, pyrotechnics was supervised by Academy Award winning visual effects artist Clay Pinney who also worked on the visual effects for Independence Day.

While the building demolition sequence near the end of the movie is the culmination of the ludicrousness of Tommy Lee Jones character Mike Rourke, a man with seemingly superhuman speed and strength to save his daughter and a young boy from a falling building as well as literally not knowing what magma is, the scene is a visual treat. With the lava flow redirected, it still looks detailed and realistic.

The movie's final shot a long lingering helicopter view of Los Angeles showing the newly formed Mount Wilshire with smoke, ash and cooling lava visible across the city. The shows the scale of the devastation. It's not quite as devastating as Dante's Peak, but devastating enough for a city like la.

I don't really want to compare off screen deaths, but Dante's Peak probably had more because there were a lot of cars on those roads trying to escape.

April: 1997

That's also a previous episode of this podcast.

Volcano would gross $49.3 million domestically and $73.5 million internationally, for a total worldwide gross of $122.8 million, over $50 million less than Dante's Peak.

his routine disaster film. In: 1997

Unfortunately, no science classes are using it for geological study. Unless they don't know what magma is. Honestly, both of these movies have their positives and negatives. I prefer Dante's Peak.

I think it's a better movie overall. I think the effects hold up really well.

But Dante's Peak is relentless in the destruction and genuinely seems to have zero regard for the poor people of this town.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure most of them perished off screen and and those poor children have been traumatised by their grandmother dying from an acid lake only for their new future stepfather because, let's be honest, he will become that offering them a boat trip for fishing. Read the Room Harry. But its characters are given more development overall.

But then over at Volcano you have some excellent character actors and up and coming stars like Don Cheadle, who's really in a much better movie than everyone else because Don Cheadle is fantastic.

It also has a host of real life news presenters playing themselves to add authenticity and tries to get into some social commentary about class and race in Los Angeles that honestly doesn't land as well as the movie wants it to. But for sheer scope and scale, a river of lava flowing through Los Angeles is unlike anything else.

Visually, these movies are remarkably similar in so many respects, but Dante's Peak is more serious and accurate. The thinking person's Volcano movie and Volcano is big, dumb and completely aware of that fact.

Surely Hollywood would never attempt to pit two such types of movies against each other the following year that were about meteors on a collision course with planet Earth. That'll never happen. Thank you for listening. As always, I would love to hear your thoughts on Dante's Peak or volcano.

And thank you for your continued support of this podcast. So the next episode. What do you mean they did it again? The following year, the twin movies phenomenon happened again.

And really, this is the mother of all disaster twin movies. The ones that are often cited.

One, a thoughtful, slow exploration of humanity facing an extinction level event and the other soundtracked by Aerosmith. Both had a crew going into space to save the world, but only one had a qualified team of astronauts going into space to save the world.

The other had animal crackers.

one heard about Armageddon in: 1998

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Em: 00:52:03

Bye.